Lucian, Dialogues of the Dead, 5 (18)
Leela DeSilva /
- Created on 2025-05-13 03:04:06
- Modified on 2025-05-13 22:09:25
- Translated by Loeb Classical Library
- Aligned by Leela DeSilva
Ἑλληνική
English
English
ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΥ ΚΑΙ ΕΡΜΟΥ
ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ
Ποῦ δαὶ3 οἱ καλοί εἰσιν ἢ αἱ καλαί , Ἑρμῆ ; ξενάγησόν με νέηλυν ὄντα .
ΕΡΜΗΣ
Οὐ σχολή μέν , ὦ Μένιππε · πλὴν κατ᾿ ἐκεῖνο ἀπόβλεψον , ἐπὶ τὰ δεξιά , ἔνθα ὁ Ὑάκινθός τέ ἐστιν καὶ Νάρκισσος καὶ Νιρεὺς καὶ Ἀχιλλεὺς καὶ Τυρὼ καὶ Ἑλένη καὶ Λήδα καὶ ὅλως τὰ ἀρχαῖα πάντα κάλλη .
ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ
Ὀστᾶ μόνα ὁρῶ καὶ κρανία τῶν σαρκῶν γυμνά , ὅμοια τὰ πολλά .
ΕΡΜΗΣ
Καὶ μὴν ἐκεῖνά ἐστιν ἃ πάντες οἱ ποιηταὶ θαυμάζουσι τὰ ὀστᾶ , ὧν σὺ ἔοικας καταφρονεῖν .
ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ
Ὅμως τὴν Ἑλένην μοι δεῖξον · οὐ γὰρ ἂν διαγνοίην ἔγωγε .
ΕΡΜΗΣ
Τουτὶ τὸ κρανίον ἡ Ἑλένη ἐστίν .
ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ
Εἶτα διὰ τοῦτο αἱ χίλιαι νῆες ἐπληρώθησαν ἐξ ἁπάσης τῆς Ἑλλάδος καὶ τοσοῦτοι ἔπεσον Ἕλληνές τε καὶ βάρβαροι καὶ τοσαῦται πόλεις ἀνάστατοι γεγόνασιν ;
ΕΡΜΗΣ
Ἀλλ᾿ οὐκ εἶδες , ὦ Μένιππε , ζῶσαν τὴν γυναῖκα · ἔφης γὰρ ἂν καὶ σὺ ἀνεμέσητον εἶναι " τοιῇδ᾿ ἀμφὶ γυναικὶ πολὺν χρόνον ἄλγεα πάσχειν " · ἐπεὶ καὶ τὰ ἄνθη ξηρὰ ὄντα εἴ τις βλέποι ἀποβεβληκότα τὴν βαφήν , ἄμορφα δῆλον ὅτι αὐτῷ δόξει , ὅτε μέντοι ἀνθεῖ καὶ ἔχει τὴν χρόαν , κάλλιστά ἐστιν .
ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ
Οὐκοῦν τοῦτο , ὦ Ἑρμῆ , θαυμάζω , εἰ μὴ συνίεσαν οἱ Ἀχαιοὶ περὶ πράγματος οὕτως ὀλιγοχρονίου καὶ ῥᾳδίως ἀπανθοῦντος πονοῦντες .
ΕΡΜΗΣ
Οὐ σχολή μοι , ὦ Μένιππε , συμφιλοσοφεῖν σοι . ὥστε σὺ μὲν ἐπιλεξάμενος τόπον , ἔνθα ἂν ἐθέλῃς , κεῖσο καταβαλὼν σεαυτόν , ἐγὼ δὲ τοὺς ἄλλους νεκροὺς ἤδη μετελεύσομαι .
ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ
Ποῦ δαὶ3 οἱ καλοί εἰσιν ἢ αἱ καλαί , Ἑρμῆ ; ξενάγησόν με νέηλυν ὄντα .
ΕΡΜΗΣ
Οὐ σχολή μέν , ὦ Μένιππε · πλὴν κατ᾿ ἐκεῖνο ἀπόβλεψον , ἐπὶ τὰ δεξιά , ἔνθα ὁ Ὑάκινθός τέ ἐστιν καὶ Νάρκισσος καὶ Νιρεὺς καὶ Ἀχιλλεὺς καὶ Τυρὼ καὶ Ἑλένη καὶ Λήδα καὶ ὅλως τὰ ἀρχαῖα πάντα κάλλη .
ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ
Ὀστᾶ μόνα ὁρῶ καὶ κρανία τῶν σαρκῶν γυμνά , ὅμοια τὰ πολλά .
ΕΡΜΗΣ
Καὶ μὴν ἐκεῖνά ἐστιν ἃ πάντες οἱ ποιηταὶ θαυμάζουσι τὰ ὀστᾶ , ὧν σὺ ἔοικας καταφρονεῖν .
ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ
Ὅμως τὴν Ἑλένην μοι δεῖξον · οὐ γὰρ ἂν διαγνοίην ἔγωγε .
ΕΡΜΗΣ
Τουτὶ τὸ κρανίον ἡ Ἑλένη ἐστίν .
ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ
Εἶτα διὰ τοῦτο αἱ χίλιαι νῆες ἐπληρώθησαν ἐξ ἁπάσης τῆς Ἑλλάδος καὶ τοσοῦτοι ἔπεσον Ἕλληνές τε καὶ βάρβαροι καὶ τοσαῦται πόλεις ἀνάστατοι γεγόνασιν ;
ΕΡΜΗΣ
Ἀλλ᾿ οὐκ εἶδες , ὦ Μένιππε , ζῶσαν τὴν γυναῖκα · ἔφης γὰρ ἂν καὶ σὺ ἀνεμέσητον εἶναι " τοιῇδ᾿ ἀμφὶ γυναικὶ πολὺν χρόνον ἄλγεα πάσχειν " · ἐπεὶ καὶ τὰ ἄνθη ξηρὰ ὄντα εἴ τις βλέποι ἀποβεβληκότα τὴν βαφήν , ἄμορφα δῆλον ὅτι αὐτῷ δόξει , ὅτε μέντοι ἀνθεῖ καὶ ἔχει τὴν χρόαν , κάλλιστά ἐστιν .
ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ
Οὐκοῦν τοῦτο , ὦ Ἑρμῆ , θαυμάζω , εἰ μὴ συνίεσαν οἱ Ἀχαιοὶ περὶ πράγματος οὕτως ὀλιγοχρονίου καὶ ῥᾳδίως ἀπανθοῦντος πονοῦντες .
ΕΡΜΗΣ
Οὐ σχολή μοι , ὦ Μένιππε , συμφιλοσοφεῖν σοι . ὥστε σὺ μὲν ἐπιλεξάμενος τόπον , ἔνθα ἂν ἐθέλῃς , κεῖσο καταβαλὼν σεαυτόν , ἐγὼ δὲ τοὺς ἄλλους νεκροὺς ἤδη μετελεύσομαι .
Menippus and Hermes
Menippus
Where , then , are the handsome men or the beautiful women , Hermes ? Guide me , as I am a newcomer .
Hermes
There is no leisure , Menippus ; except look over there , toward the right , where Hyacinth is and Narcissus , Neverus , Achilles , Tyro , Helen , Leda , and in general where all the ancient beauties are .
Menippus
I see only bones and bare skulls , most of them alike .
Hermes
And indeed those are the things all the poets admire , the bones which you seem to despise .
Menippus
Nevertheless , show me Helen ; For I myself would not recognize her .
Hermes
This here skull is Helen .
Menippus
Was it then , because of this , the thousand ships were filled from all Greece , and so many fell , both Greeks and Barbarians , and so many cities became devastated ?
Hermes
But Menippus , you did not see the woman alive ; for even you said that it wouldn’t be full of blame " to suffer sufferings for a long time about such a woman " ; since the flowers are also dry and have shed their color to anyone who sees them , it is clear that they will seem formless , however when it blooms and has its color , it is most beautiful .
Menippus
Therefore , Hermes , this is what I am amazed by , that the Achaens did not understand how short-lived and easily withering the affair was , while they are suffering .
Hermes
I have no leisure , Menippus , to philosophize with you . So that you , on the one hand having chosen a place , lie down yourself where you would like , on the other hand I will seek the other dead now .
Menippus
Where , then , are the handsome men or the beautiful women , Hermes ? Guide me , as I am a newcomer .
Hermes
There is no leisure , Menippus ; except look over there , toward the right , where Hyacinth is and Narcissus , Neverus , Achilles , Tyro , Helen , Leda , and in general where all the ancient beauties are .
Menippus
I see only bones and bare skulls , most of them alike .
Hermes
And indeed those are the things all the poets admire , the bones which you seem to despise .
Menippus
Nevertheless , show me Helen ; For I myself would not recognize her .
Hermes
This here skull is Helen .
Menippus
Was it then , because of this , the thousand ships were filled from all Greece , and so many fell , both Greeks and Barbarians , and so many cities became devastated ?
Hermes
But Menippus , you did not see the woman alive ; for even you said that it wouldn’t be full of blame " to suffer sufferings for a long time about such a woman " ; since the flowers are also dry and have shed their color to anyone who sees them , it is clear that they will seem formless , however when it blooms and has its color , it is most beautiful .
Menippus
Therefore , Hermes , this is what I am amazed by , that the Achaens did not understand how short-lived and easily withering the affair was , while they are suffering .
Hermes
I have no leisure , Menippus , to philosophize with you . So that you , on the one hand having chosen a place , lie down yourself where you would like , on the other hand I will seek the other dead now .
Menippus and Hermes
Menippus
Tell me , Hermes , where are the beauties of both sexes ? Show me round , as I’m a newcomer .
Hermes
I have no time , Menippus . But just look over there to your right , where you’ll see Hyacinthus , Narcissus , NIreus , Achilles , Tyro , Helen , and Leda , and , in fact , all the beauties of old .
Menippus
I can only see bones and bare skulls , most of them looking the same .
Hermes
Yet those are what all the poets admire , those bones which you seem to despise .
Menippus
But show me Helen . I can’t pick her out myself .
Hermes
This skull is Helen .
Menippus
Was it then for this that the thousand ships were manned from all Greece , for this that so many Greeks and barbarians fell , and so many cities were devastated ?
Hermes
Ah , but you never saw the woman alive , Menippus , or you would have said yourself that it was forgivable that they " for such a lady long should suffer woe " . For if one sees flowers that are dried up and faded , they will , of course , appear ugly ; but when they are in bloom and have their colour , they are very beautiful .
Menippus
Well , Hermes , what does surprise me is this : that the Achaeans didn’t know how short-lived a thing they strove for , and how soon it loses its bloom .
Hermes
I have no time to moralise with you , Menippus . Choose a place to lie down in , wherever you like , and I’ll be off now to fetch the other shades .
Menippus
Tell me , Hermes , where are the beauties of both sexes ? Show me round , as I’m a newcomer .
Hermes
I have no time , Menippus . But just look over there to your right , where you’ll see Hyacinthus , Narcissus , NIreus , Achilles , Tyro , Helen , and Leda , and , in fact , all the beauties of old .
Menippus
I can only see bones and bare skulls , most of them looking the same .
Hermes
Yet those are what all the poets admire , those bones which you seem to despise .
Menippus
But show me Helen . I can’t pick her out myself .
Hermes
This skull is Helen .
Menippus
Was it then for this that the thousand ships were manned from all Greece , for this that so many Greeks and barbarians fell , and so many cities were devastated ?
Hermes
Ah , but you never saw the woman alive , Menippus , or you would have said yourself that it was forgivable that they " for such a lady long should suffer woe " . For if one sees flowers that are dried up and faded , they will , of course , appear ugly ; but when they are in bloom and have their colour , they are very beautiful .
Menippus
Well , Hermes , what does surprise me is this : that the Achaeans didn’t know how short-lived a thing they strove for , and how soon it loses its bloom .
Hermes
I have no time to moralise with you , Menippus . Choose a place to lie down in , wherever you like , and I’ll be off now to fetch the other shades .